Girnhill Lane Archived News 4

[Willow]

I hate cross posting from another forum but this has got me so angry. According to what this person has been told by a resident of Girnhill and I quote, not one house has yet been compulsory purchased on the estate. everyone so far has done a deal and a good deal at that. Also that the people who are causing most of the trouble are the ones that bought houses when they knew that they were condemned. just to make a quick profit. What a load of f****** b*** s***. I know people up there they have lived up there for over 30 years and in my opinion they deserve all our respect and support.

[yetion1]

Didn't know you lived up there Yetion 1.

its a good one that isnt it WMDC would be rearly super peed if they did find i am land owner on the estate wouldnt they

[yetion1]

I hate cross posting from another forum but this has got me so angry. According to what this person has been told by a resident of Girnhill and I quote, not one house has yet been compulsory purchased on the estate. everyone so far has done a deal and a good deal at that. Also that the people who are causing most of the trouble are the ones that bought houses when they knew that they were condemned. just to make a quick profit. What a load of f****** b*** s***. I know people up there they have lived up there for over 30 years and in my opinion they deserve all our respect and support.

Your honesty is admirable willow. There are many forums all of a sudden but the truth is “the truth gets told here”.
The person speaking sounds like a baboon. As usual no evidence must be a labor guy. Tell them to come here and lets chat, or are they still running

[Willow]

They would have to run if I was anywhere near them after that statement, I'm still fuming about it. What do they mean by causing trouble. The residents are only asking for a fare deal. After what they have had to put up with since this all started they deserve a lot more than what there asking for in my opinion.

[John]

  Having read the Girnhill story for months, the news info here is priceless. Just looked at the news paper link. I did notice the police say the word arson. Looks like it has been reported. Must mean an investigation has begun?

[yetion1]

it looks like the arsonists are on time again tonight. 2 youths with hammers seen by no5 ascroft. will it be no5 or the digger parked next door that they have got the shutters off. ill have a £1 on the digger

[yetion1]

Mrs J Howley
Housing and public protection
Newton bar
Wakefield
West York’s
Wf1 2tx

29/12/2008

Dear Janet

RE THE GIRNHILL ESTATE

I appreciate your reply dated 19th December.  Your confirmation that all relevant departments and parties have been informed is most welcome.

Your second bullet point “all properties that have steel sheeting removed for inspections are re-secured before the contractor leaves site for the day”, confirms that the shutters should be of a metal material and not wood as those recently used around the estate. Surely wooden shutters are more prone to attack. You commented “I would state that no securing system is designed to stand up to the continual abuse that the screens have received, and ultimately if individuals are determined to get in there is little that can prevent it”, yet you know wood is not suitable and metal does prevent it unless usually weakened by the contractor.
I believe there is a solution to security, access and an all round cost saving not to mention public safety.
A. A re-usable metal door frame could be made with metal door that could be secured to the outside of the house and locked. That sorts the security and access and should actually reduce costs for covering over doorways.
B. There is a wide range of fixings available on the market today that could assist the contractor and WMDC in ease of fitting and repair and also give more strength than ever used on the estate. The Hilti Tech gun offers portable firing of anchors into concrete or brick in seconds. A grinder is all that will remove them.

Your reply “I would add that there has been much speculation that fires assist the demolition program, and that there has been a strategy of leaving properties open to support this.  I would state definitively that this is false, and fire damaged properties are more difficult and costly to remove, as they have to be treated as contaminated waste.  It is simply not in the Council's interest to encourage the properties being burnt out, and ensuring residents' safety is a priority”, does not answer the question of costs. If what you say is correct then WMDC have had a huge increase in cost due to the arson attacks.
 Is there documentation available that shows the price of removing a burnt house and non-burnt house in comparison?
 In the last 2 years all the houses demolished regardless of being burnt or not prior have been removed in exactly the same way and left on the same heavy goods vehicles to the same dumps. There is no evidence that any of the 74 burnt out properties have been treated in any different way as would be expected with a contaminated area and waste.
 Has WMDC been given a larger bill for the removal of the houses burnt pre-demolition from the contractor or a smaller one?
 Has WMDC a procedure to monitor the removal of contaminated waste?
As the arson of the houses was random and un-known did WMDC obtain a separate quote for the removal of each contaminated property?
The term contaminated waste is interesting in this scenario as there appears to be a double standard. During demolition all combustibles were removed from properties that had not been fired and then burnt in the gardens. The smoke from this was contaminating as so was the ash and waste produced that was then removed in the same wagons as everything else.

The residents did agree to as quickly as possible demolition. They did not agree to all most no monitoring of the situation.

Your comments on services “We were not aware that the water service had been cut - however in such circumstances, the contractor takes immediate steps to ensure that any disruption is as short lived as possible, and that the integrity of the supply is restored without longer term problems.  Working with the service providers is a key aspect of this”. A good example of this not being implemented is the telephone lines. All around the estate you can see telephone cables hanging from posts. Every one has not been cut but instead just ripped from each building. They are live and blow about in the wind across the public paths. During the last days of demolition this year the phone lines as usual were still connected to houses. As the buildings came down the cables pulled at the telegraph post and made it swing violently. This pulled tight the cables still connected to houses that were occupied. Surely this is un-fair on the residents and they should have a come back on some one if a line fault develops.

“The securing work through Housing has been allocated to a local company to ensure that securing work can be done as quickly as possible.  However, this company does not operate a 24 hour call out system, and they attend as quickly as they are able.”  The security company is fitting wooden shutters. This is not acceptable according to your concerns. The security company is not 24hours yet when I called a member of your team to report 4 un-open properties at 4.30pm and the strong possibility of arson; they did not get boarded until 11.00pm after they had burnt down? “The order for our screening company to attend the open properties you had reported was placed on the afternoon of the 15th December, and the company attended as quickly as they were able,” is a hard to believe answer that the boarding company turned up from the 4.30pm call. According to a policeman on site that night they had asked WMDC for the shutters after first attending the scene.
 What is this company’s operating hours? I assume they just work nights from the results so far.

“Residents have been provided with the Council's One-Call number several times so that they can report any open properties that they have concerns about, out of hours.  The contact number for one call is 0845 8 506 506”. Have you tried to use this service? On 3 occasions I have called I have been informed that due to staff shortages and call volume it is un-likely anyone can attend but the report has been logged. On 3 occasions I have requested boarding up the reply is that they can instruct that service. This is really a recording office for concerns not a help line for action.

“The Council is paying for nightly patrols (5 per night) 7 days per week.  However these patrollers have no powers to arrest, and when they come across anti social behaviour, they report it immediately to the Police.  They cannot perform any other function than to be an additional eyes and ears on the Estate at night.” An obvious recommendation would be to patrol from 4.00pm to 10pm as this is when the majority of the fires occur. As co-coordinator for the local shop watch scheme a big advantage to all would be to make regular contact with these patrollers?

The contractors have now finished work until January. At this stage I can only assume that the fires will start again in January and end just before the contractors do. Perhaps a concentrated effort could be made to catch the people responsible. A portable cctv system costing £100 to £200 could easily be fitted to empty houses. Not a lot of thought could go a long way if acted upon quickly.

[yetion1]

I have had a report that there was a skip fire down the bottom end on Sunday night. The fire brigade turned out and found the copper boiler stripped from house.

I can also report on a sighting of the WMDC patrollers. 1 man drove down Girnhill, around Verna and back out again in seconds. He looked a skill full guy with x-ray vision as he never took his mobile phone from his ear the whole trip. As thieves were known to be on the estate he was stopped and pointed towards Ashcroft. He did go up Ashcroft at 30 mph with his phone back on his ear and turned left to Nuns lane. There must be a better word for waste of time or paid cruiser.

[Mr T]

I posted a picture a while back, indicating all the houses that had been targeted by the arsonists! Since then, as you are aware, there have been many more incidents, so I have updated the picture! Once again, I have only marked the houses that I know for sure have been targeted, although there has been more than what is shown here! The yellow squares are blocks of 4 houses!

[yetion1]

I get that to 74 houses burnt excluding skip, garden and repeat house fires up to 3 each. One day soon I hope a reporter will find this thread and believe thier eyes, its a uk and world record for Gods sake
Now there is an idea. Anyone contacted the Guiness people?

[John]

thats a hell of a lot of fires. im surprised the front page of a national has not taken it up.

[Whistleblower]

Its strange really that a labour council does nothing to stop the arson attacks. Not only are peoples lives been put in danger by toxic smoke inhalation but it is also damaging the environment. Environmental issues are something labour claim to be concerned about, but by allowing 74 fires and in some cases contributing to by leaving houses unsecured it would appear that someone’s not doing there job correctly. 

[Whistleblower]

Just heard 3 more residents may be selling up and leaving the estate . One is definitely going and the other 2 are looking at properties, apparently they don’t fancy living on an estate with over 250 new affordable 3 story homes, not after living on such a quiet estate (apart from the fire engines) for the past 10 years. I wish them all the best and think they have done great by sticking it out this long 

[Mr T]

WWW.YOUTUBE.COM/MRTSFORUMVIDEOS

[yetion1]

Investigator
Local Government Ombudsman
Beverly House
17 Shipton Road
York
YO305FZ

07/01/2008

REF: Lister Baths area

To the investigator,
Further to the up-date provided up to December 2008 I would like to bring your attention to a further matter that relates greatly my concern.
You can see from the documents that fires start mainly at night when the contractors are on site and have left for the day. You will also have seen the many instances where the securing of buildings has not been done full stop giving easy access.
After the Christmas holidays the contractors started work this Monday. Monday night saw yet another unsecured house burnt. This house sits on the end of the estate and in an even more populated area. The house had been reported un-secure on Monday night. Tuesday saw nothing done. Today I called WMDC to ask why the property was still left. I received a call from Janet Howley asking details. I explained I was grateful for her reply and explained the situation. Mrs Howley said she would investigate and let me know. Mrs Howley called me back and informed me that an officer was on their way to the house and would be speaking with the contractor. A further call from Mrs Howley informed me of bad news. The WMDC investigator had talked with the contractor and the opinion was that the UPVC door frame had been damaged in the fire and would be difficult to secure. No extra metal sheeting was on site so the property would be left un-secure again. I expressed my concern and stated that it was more than likely that the property would be on fire in the next few hours. The situation was left at that as WMDC had no other way of making safe the house in the interest of public safety.

I would like to point out that this has been one of the most blatant displays of the tactics being used. WMDC have stated many times they will try to resolve security issues on the estate within 24 hours. 96 hours later WMDC have put their hands in the air and admitted defeat. Any future problems are going to add to the resident’s plight being a breach of their human rights.

Regards

[Popeye]

Whats your opinion on this topic Mick

[yetion1]

This is a reply from Mrs Howley. My reply is highlighted blue.

07.01.09


Dear

Thank you for your latest contact.  I would respond as follows:
 
1.  The wooden shutters are not provided by our screening contractor, but are put up by WMDCs call out team.  This is an emergency provision when One-Call are alerted to incidents on the Estate and provide an out of hours response.  The local screening company uses metal shuttering.  The incident you refer to where you reported open dwellings at 4.30pm was dealt with as an emergency call out by WMDC operatives, and involved wooden sheets.  The local screening company attended at 11am the following day.

Before I can comment on your reply could you confirm it was WMDC who turned up at 10.45pm just after the fire to board up the burnt out shell while the police and fire service were in attendance?
 
2.  The use of metal screens is the Council's preferred material, but in cases of emergency wood is applied.  I agree that metal is more hard-wearing, and I shall ask that where wood has been applied that it be replaced by metal sheeting as quickly as possible.  With respect to your suggestion around metal door frames, and the Hilti Tech gun, we shall ask the contractor to investigate and if this is a more suitable product, we will implement this. I would however add that we have used several screen fixing companies (including ORBIS and Safe Estates, who are local market leaders) who have utilised the most secure fixing methods known to them. None of the fixing methods have proved to be completely impenetrable if vandals are determined enough to gain access.
 
I appreciate that my suggestion has been offered. The bigger the company does not all ways mean they have met everything. Technology is moving forward on all fronts very fast.

3.  As stated previously, I have not yet received notification of the costs of the latest out of hours call-out.  As the work is undertaken by the Council's in-house emergency staff, a formal invoice is not generated.  I will ultimately be asked for an expenditure code to internally transfer funds for the work.  The cost is usually in the region of £150 as opposed to £60 per opening as charged by the contractor.

I await your reply.

4. The cost of demolishing burnt and non burnt properties varies most in the means of disposal of waste to landfill.  Every property is tested for asbestos within it, and such material is removed and disposed of in a specific manner, in accordance with health and safety legislation.  Once a property has been burnt out, the entire property is treated as if it contains asbestos, and removed in the required manner.  It is this disposal that increases the cost.  NPS have indicated that the cost differential is in the region of £1,415 extra cost per dwelling.

I am no expert regards the disposal of asbestos. If what you say is correct and the area is to be treated as contaminated should not the removal be under the guidelines shown on the directect.gov.uk website. These show covers over the property and sealable containers for the waste.
 
5.  The removal of all demolition material is specified through the demolition contract, and certificates are produced confirming that asbestos testing and waste removal has been undertaken in the appropriate manner.  NPS monitor the contract to ensure that removal is in accordance with legislation.

Will NPS have the receipts for the extra costs of asbestos waste taken to the land fill sites?
6.  I am advised that the telephone services were removed from all properties prior to demolition, and the remaining cables are not live, although I agree that they look unsightly in their current condition.  BT have been involved in the demolition process, and I have not been made aware of any resident having problems with their telephone supply.  I shall ask NPS to investigate with BT to determine a better solution to the cables.
 
It is possible to make dead a BT cable. On many occasion BT were no where to be seen when demolition started. Houses are being knocked down with cables connected. This bends the main pole and stretch’s others cables. A fault is more than likely. Is there is a record of the charge made by BT for disconnecting every cable to every house?

7.  One-Call is a staffed service, although at peak times, answer phones do sometimes have to be used.  Where residents have called the One-call number and emergency action has been needed in respect of open dwellings, this has been provided.  We have found that this service is the best one which gives some level of out of hours coverage - we have found similar services provided through external contractors to be very costly, and attendance has generally been very poor.
 
8.  Patrols were originally implemented between 6pm and midnight, but local residents advised us of activity in the early hours, so patrols were adjusted.  I shall ask the patrollers to revise their attendance times around 4pm and 10pm as you suggest; however, there does appear to be no optimum time for patrols to be scheduled, and the attendance times may again need future revision.
 
I have to disagree regards no optimum time. The majority of the fires in the last 2 years have been 5pm to 10pm

9.  The Council has discussed the implementation of CCTV cameras with the Police some time ago, but their view was that their effectiveness was very limited.  They report that the quality of picture after dark is not good, and that they have had many instances where break ins to steal the cameras have actually increased anti social behaviour.  However, their greatest concern is that local residents may perceive an area to be much safer than it is just because CCTV is present, and may take risks with their safety.  It is on this basis that they have not been introduced.
 
Your points are all valid. What I have learnt that some will agree with is that the real issue is finding someone who cares. The local police inspector is more than willing to at least try and has responded to similar letters with action. The action comes not as a way to get rid of me but because there is a big problem. Evidence is just that. Sometimes it comes down to how hard some one is prepared to use it. All I can ask is that you contact Inspector Dick Jones and take his view. CCTV is an answer.

10. There is no 55 Ashcroft Avenue, but staff will be patrolling and will check for openings that are not secure.

I will check. The house in question was the one left open all of Christmas with 3 fires and people stripping the building after.

I trust this clarifies the points raised in your e-mail.

Janet Howley
Regeneration Manager
Development and Strategic Housing
Room D34
Newton Bar
Leeds Road
Wakefield  WF1 2TX

[mick200]

Whats your opinion on this topic Mick

Oh it's just another band wagon for the independents to jump on and make matters worse. If you think I'm fooled by the staged press releases where Independent councillors turn up and appear concerned for the residents, think again. Since the Independents have become involved and got their teeth into it, it's gone off the disaster scalometer. But I suppose they can add it to the rest of 'have not dones' they have stock piled.
You see the Independents start something and never finish it, they have a whole history of incomplete projects which they use to either get elected or stay elected. Lister baths, Town hall projects, Independence from the local authority to name a few. When the curtain of history comes down and people take a peek behind it they will see a flag pole and the only small town in the authority to have two seperate war memorials. Our ancestors will 'look on' totally inspired won't they?

[yetion1]

A band wagon? Don’t you mean a situation created by a vote from our trusted M.P. Was it, and is not labor that has created the problem?
I like the “disaster scaleomoter”. Let’s have a look. Labor strips country and Featherstone of assets to feed the fat cat pensions leaving the biggest recession in history. Oh yes history. You remind me. The world will look back and see the billions wasted by labor like the Dome and buying banks (officially they don’t own the banks). The list is endless.
Yet the independents just get on with it and need no glory such as that tried to be taken by the M.P. and labor for a war memorial they tried everything to stop and then everything to enjoy the party.
Is the other war memorial the labor party one made out of a 2nd lamp hand lamp post? Regeneration perhaps? No because its not labor?
So far the records given should inspire our ancestors to “fight” against political parties.

[John]

got to say mick, the disaster scale bit can only be given to the labour party for doing buggar all.